From kdubray at juniper.net  Fri Dec  7 16:47:58 2001
From: kdubray at juniper.net (Kevin Dubray)
Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 11:47:58 -0500
Subject: BMWG - BGP convergence benchmarking issues
Message-ID: <3C10F2BE.5B627FC4@juniper.net>

One of the agenda items for the BMWG session at SLC is to
solicit input with regards to issues facing BGP convergence 
benchmarking methodologies. (E.g., route mixes, update sequencing,
timers, etc.)

If interested, check out item 3 of the BMWG agenda:

   http://www.ietf.org/ietf/01dec/bmwg.txt

Offered in the fine spirit of cross-pollination. 

-Kevin



From randy at psg.com  Mon Dec 10 13:00:18 2001
From: randy at psg.com (Randy Bush)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 06:00:18 -0700
Subject: agenda
Message-ID: <E16DQ2c-00019h-00@roam.psg.com>

apologies for the shabby agenda 

+ intro and shanghai scribe

+ agenda bashing

+ i have received requests to discuss two drafts as follows:

  o draft-huston-nopeer-00.txt

  o http://buffoon.automagic.org/dist/draft-jabley-edge-policy-propagation-control-02.txt

+ in addition, we should discuss
  o should this group continue
  o if so, we need a chair or chairs
  o charter and milestone review

randy


From mknopper at cisco.com  Thu Dec 13 18:22:55 2001
From: mknopper at cisco.com (Mark Knopper)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:22:55 -0500
Subject: Fwd: Minutes from ptomaine at IETF52
Message-ID: <a05100333b83ea24a3e92@[12.131.200.201]>

Thanks to Sean M. for taking minutes.
	Mark



>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 17:03:36 -0700 (MST)
>From: Sean McCreary <mccreary at dynabook.mcwest.org>
>To: mknopper at cisco.com, smd at clock.org
>Subject: Minutes from ptomaine at IETF52
>
>Randy Bush presented the agenda for bashing
>
>Two drafts to discuss
>draft-huston-nopeer-00.txt
>http://buffoon.automagic.org/dist/draft-jabley-edge-policy-propagation-control-02.txt
>
>Neither Geoff Huston nor Joe Abley were present to discuss their drafts
>	Randy asked if anyone else felt compentent to present either draft
>		No one responded
>
>Randy asked about the future of the working group
>	If it is to continue, we need a new chair
>
>Sean Doran:  Geoff Huston and Joe Abley couldn't be here because of
>	circumstances beyond their control, this is a transient glitch
>
>Mark Knopper and Sean Doran volunteered to fill the role of co-chairs
>
>=======================
>
>Andre Broido presented an overview of variability in BGP announcements
>	http://www.caida.org/outreach/presentations/BGP2001dec/
>
>Questioner: Did you look at the ratio of average and variance of the AS
>	path length distribution?  (slide 8)
>
>Andre: I have looked at the variance for these distributions, but I don't
>	have the results here
>
>Randy Bush: Are the statistics for the percentage of routes that are more
>	specifics for just /24s or for all prefixes? (slide 12)
>
>Andre:  They are for all prefixes
>
>In slide 15, the values in the table are percentages
>
>kc claffy: Skitter is a CAIDA project that collects forward path information
>	to a large number of destination addresses in the Internet
>	using hop-limited probes (slide 17)
>
>Sean Doran: There's a observational bias in the data collected from BGP
>	tables compared to that collected from actual traffic.  There
>	should be significant differences between the connectivity seen
>	by these two techniques
>
>Randy Bush: A bunch of multihomed ASes announce on only one link? (slide 22)
>
>Andre:	Yes
>
>Randy:  Then this is probably load-balancing, announcing a more specific
>	route to one provider
>
>Ran Atkinson: The data collected from route views is fuzzy, and shouldn't
>	be presented to three decimal places of accuracy (slide 23)
>
>Cengiz Alaettinoglu: You will not see the less specific advertisments in all
>	cases from Route-Views data, since many providers may prefer the
>	other route, and fiter it from their advertisements
>
>Randy: BGP is myopic
>
>Sean Doran: What about oscillating prefixes?  Do you think some of the
>	transient entries may be persitently oscillating (slide 25)
>
>Andre:	Yes, we only see changes between our samples from Route Views every
>	two hours.  We are currently collecting every update, and will
>	present results based on that data in the future.
>
>FP/Kupt = Flips per 1000 uptime units in slide 28
>AS752 is Merit, and their position near the top of the list may be due to
>	ongoing research on BGP convergence times
>
>Many of the others are large providers with many prefixes, or in countries
>outside North America and Western Europe (Romania, Columbia, etc.)
>
>====================================
>
>Sean Doran asked for additional obeservations and predictions to be sent
>to the mailing list


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